[Boomer]

The current Home Office guideline figure, based on Forensic Science Service advice is "that at or below the power level of 1 joule serious injury is unlikely to occur". Sites are advised that there is an up to 10% increase allowed to deal with variations in chronographs, etc.

The Firearms Consultative Committee in their final report wanted a lethality limit of 1 joule enshrined in legislation.

The case of Moore v Gooderham (which is not on point for airsoft projectiles) has a limit of 377fps with a 0.2gm bb/1.35joules/1 ftlbs.

At the last meeting with the Home Office it was made clear that the HO and ACPO were intent on pressing ahead with a lethality limit of 1 joule.

As the law currently stands (taking Moore v Gooderham as the relevant case law) any 0.2gm bb discharged over 377fps is in a legal grey area.

[MB84]

What currently qualifies a "firearm"?

By that I mean, a weapon wherein you require an official license to purchase, own and operate.

[Terminal Boy]

Air rifles up to 12ftlb ME and air pistols up to 6ftlb ME are firearms as described in the 1968 Firearms Act. You just don't need a license to posess them. Go over those limits and you need a FAC.

My understanding is that anything capable of causing what the HO call a serious injury gets called "lethal barrelled" and is classed as a firearm in UK law.

[Boomer]

What is a Firearm?
The term "Firearm", within the definition of the Firearms Acts, means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description, from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged. It includes any prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal weapon as aforesaid or not, any component part of such a weapon, and any accessory to such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by the firing of the weapon.
Firearm, within the terms of what you are allowed to hold on a firearm certificate, would obviously not include any prohibited weapons. Neither would it include "shotguns", as they are held on a shotgun certificate unless it is classified as a Section 1 firearm and then would be held on a firearm certificate.

Prohibited Weapons
There are many types of firearms, especially those designed for military use, that have no place in the sporting field or hobby of shooting and others, for instance some hand guns, which have been brought into the prohibited category by Acts of Parliament. All of the following weapons and ammunition are prohibited:
Section 5 (1)
1. any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger.
1. (1.1) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges.
2. (1.2) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30cm in length or is less than 60cm in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus.
3. (1.3) any self-loading or pump-action smooth bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or is less than 40 inches in length overall.
4. (1.4) any smooth bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm rim-fire cartridges or a muzzle-loading gun.
5. (1.5) any rocket launcher, or any mortar, for projecting a stabilised missile, other than a launcher or mortar designed for line throwing or pyrotechnic purposes or as signalling apparatus.
6. (1.6) any air rifle, airgun or air pistol which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system.
2. any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing.
3. any cartridge with a bullet so designed to explode on or immediately before impact, any ammunition containing or designed or adapted to contain any such noxious thing as is mentioned in paragraph (2) above and, if capable of being used with a firearm of any description, any grenade, bomb or other like missile, or rocket or shell designed to explode as aforesaid.

The critical point is "lethally barrelled" and at what power level a serious injury can occur. This is currently done on a factual and case by case basis although as previously stated there are more than rumours about this changing.

[*Ak*]

Quote

6. (1.6) any air rifle, airgun or air pistol which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system.

CO2 doesn't fall into that, does it?

[ShadyDave]

CO2 is self-contained last time I checked.

We need ViscountCharles' posts from the old ASCUK board dragging up in all honesty.

[Aitch]

oops, bye bye CO2 from the field, just when some interesting developments were happening :(

[ShadyDave]

Aitch, on 06 January 2010 - 09:04 AM, said:

oops, bye bye CO2 from the field, just when some interesting developments were happening :(

I could be wrong but without trawling through a bunch of old posts I can't remember.

:lame:

Yeah ok ok, I'll go see what I can dig up. I've a feeling that it might be totally useable and I could have been thinking of something else....

[Terminal Boy]

Wouldn't "self-contained" nicely describe GBBs and Moscarts too?

I guess the key is the ME of the RIF powered by such stays in the Home Office "Happy Zone" and hence isn't seen as an air weapon.

[mcwimbo]

as far as I am aware the self contained section covers anything containing both projectile and propellant, it was designed to remove brococks system from circulation, so GBB's where the gas is stored in the mag is fine but those that used to use a pre charged cartridge also containing the round are a no go, technically Moscarts are Self contained although I believe a few people ran the idea of these past relevant people when this became law and they basically laughed them off. C02 shouldnt be affected at all unless your decanting the C02 into a cartridge also containing a projectile.

[Terminal Boy]

Ah... I'd forgotten the Brocock fiasco.

[ShadyDave]

mcwimbo, on 06 January 2010 - 10:27 AM, said:

as far as I am aware the self contained section covers anything containing both projectile and propellant, it was designed to remove brococks system from circulation, so GBB's where the gas is stored in the mag is fine but those that used to use a pre charged cartridge also containing the round are a no go, technically Moscarts are Self contained although I believe a few people ran the idea of these past relevant people when this became law and they basically laughed them off. C02 shouldnt be affected at all unless your decanting the C02 into a cartridge also containing a projectile.

Yep, I did in fact initially think of the Brocock issue. Straight Co2 rigs (for example all the converted bolt actions) are fine.

[Aitch]

Aye, thinking about it i recon it would need to be gas>projectile in a package, which is a good thing as some of the newer stuff is looking mighty good :)

[Firekitten]

Correct me if im wrong, but wasn't the 328/1j thing the 'safe' fps that was incapable of penetrating a human eyeball at a certain distance? (sounds wrong as i type it I know)

As for firearms... full auto over 371 is also qualified as a firearm yes?

[*Ak*]

377 I thought.

[Firekitten]

lol here we go... (awaits atleast 8 other variations within a sig dev of 10)


Lets just stick to 'above 370'.... Lets be honest, nobody uses that fps here apart from one group i know of... and i never run that hot at thier events... 350 is fine for me.

[Cazboab]

Well the limit in case law is 1 foot pound, not 1.35J or 377FPS or 4 bananas and a kiwi fruit with a .2 bb- the actual numbers when converted are unwieldy big numbers like 1.3558179483314 and frankly chronos are never that accurate anyway and 2 or 3 FPS more is enough to knock you over. So what we do is we take the numbers we deal in (Joules)and we round the number down to two digits after the decimal point, so we get 1.35(before someone suggests it no you can't claim its 1.36 because you round up from 5 if the next digit is higher) so we get 1.35J, Now to give a 0.2g projectile 1.35J of kinetic energy you need to make it go 116 Meters per second which is 380.57blah blah feet per second.

Then we apply that number to the real world.

How many Airsoft guns will fire at 380.5 feet per second exactly in all weathers on all brands of bbs? How many chronos would read it the same every time in any lighting? So for safety's sake someone somewhere shaved a bit off and got 377 and everyone decided that was good enough.

It still doesn't mean a damn thing, cos I can only think of one site that will openly let you use anything other than a bolt action over 370 and a handful that would consider it.

[Boomer]

Firekitten, on 06 January 2010 - 01:11 PM, said:

Correct me if im wrong, but wasn't the 328/1j thing the 'safe' fps that was incapable of penetrating a human eyeball at a certain distance? (sounds wrong as i type it I know)

As for firearms... full auto over 371 is also qualified as a firearm yes?

The Human eyeball is said to be 7 times stronger than human skin according to the last firearms expert witness I spoke to in a professional capacity. The main danger areas as far as the HO are concerned in airsoft are the carotid and jugular veins in the neck.

[Firekitten]

makes sense... Bloody good job that is too considering 1j guns can still break the skin... :S

[*Ak*]

While this may be there concern I can't see a bb going into someones jugular, that would require it breaking the skin and peircing the artery.
Ever tried to cut a vein/artery, their fecking tough!